|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 04:49:42 -
[1] - Quote
I think having a window is part of the issue. the old system had no window so the window is actual a bouns to the defender then again i don;t live in sov. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 15:34:34 -
[2] - Quote
Honestly it should always be vulnerable artificial limits on attacking is what we have but it's bad game design. Having to commit small ships and harass a group has always been a part of eve since IGÇÖve been playing. Stealth bombers, Sluiced ganking with desires, and Even afk cloaking. These tactics are something the Imperium and SMA have used and continue to use IGÇÖm certain. If the enemy only has 10 ships attacking, you then you should only need 10 ships to kill them. Just because you own space doesnGÇÖt entitle you to keep that space itGÇÖs up to you to defend it and fight for it. Why should you be entitled to leave your space and own it when no one else is? If a wormhole group deploys way from there wormhole IGÇÖm sure they would lose it. If a fw militia deploys to null sec, they would lose their space. Why should owning sov make it so you donGÇÖt have to live in your space and hold it? Also letGÇÖs say they would reduce the vulnerability windows why do you think 3 to 5 days is a good option that seems to give the defender a massive advantage while artificially limiting the attacker. Would you be ok with 24-hour vulnerability windows on those 3 to 5 days? It would limit the days you had to defended but force you to actual defend on those days and would bring back the ability to make timers for whenever the attacker wanted to make them. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 16:29:08 -
[3] - Quote
If it only takes a single ship to take sov is that sov defend? and they did lower the bar to attacking sov but they also gave bonuses to the defender in the forum of vulnerability timers. Again why should you not have to defend your space if it only takes 1 ship to attack then it only takes 1 ship to defend. You have 3000+ people in your alliance so taking out alts at least more than 1000 people spread that over a tz you probably have at least 200 people on in all tzGÇÖs except au. So for 10 people attacking you and 10 responding that leaves 190 free to do whatever else. I donGÇÖt see how that eats up all your game time. If IGÇÖm wrong, please correct me on it but taking a small percentage of your numbers to defend doesnGÇÖt seem like an overburden to me. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 16:35:39 -
[4] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:A glaring symptom of this new sov system seems to be the opposite of the HP grind system. By limiting attackers to 1, you've also reduced the response to near 1.
I can show up and jam the attacker, damp them, or shoot them. What I've found after several quick response fleets is the attackers are mostly Exodus small gangs ringing a doorbell. That type of gameplay does nothing for me, but I can appreciate their good fortune through game design.
Compare this to at least 50 duders required in the past, and entosis looks a lot like pure harassment.
Now. I think it's clear this thread was started out of frustration and there's no way to spin that. It does prove my point, however, that entosis is probably not the type of thing customers enjoy.
I think capture should look like a pool of 500 or 1000 entosis minutes, with a cap on simultaneous entosis modules based on ADM.
The logic behind it is to swap capitals needed in the past with subcapitals, each with an entosis link. This breaks up the capital requirement of HP grinds, and also solves the small gang harassment.
I am posting this as one of Asher's children who enjoyed 50-man Ishtar HP grinds in Querious and other parts of Sov space.
Small gang fights are fun but not the only gameplay eve should offer the massive wars are what brings a lot of players to the game and a style of gameplay that should not suffer just to give small gang fights more of a chance. However, the mechanics are what they are and if a better system or a new system was introduced it wouldnGÇÖt take long for people to complain again anyway |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.17 19:41:33 -
[5] - Quote
ItGÇÖs a buff for the defender because now they only have to worry about being attacked a few hours a day instead of every second of the day. If a gang is attacking, you then itGÇÖs an attack and something you should have to defend against. A single ship attacking you isnGÇÖt an attack a passive regen will beat it out and you have to do nothing about it. Just because you find the mechanic tedious and boring doesnGÇÖt mean it isnGÇÖt a fair design if someone takes your space you can do the same thing back to them as well. As for a new system not using enosis that would be preferable but we work with what we got. Again if they reduced it to three to five days would you be ok with it being vulnerable all day those days? And what system with the current mechanics could you see them being able to commit heavily when the fights are spread out over a few systems and capitals and suppercaps have greatly reduced ability to entosis?
I am not saying that a better system isn't possible but with the current system it serves the goal of letting small players own and live in sov. the more you live in and use your space the harder it is for attackers as well. the current sov mechanics might not encourage the large fights of dominon sov but they do provide fights and contents so it suits that need as well. I do think sov income should get a slight buff to help reward people for living there and having to fight for there space but beyond that it does serve well for a sov mechanic thats not based around suppers
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 00:03:22 -
[6] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:I think having a window is part of the issue. the old system had no window so the window is actual a bouns to the defender then again i don;t live in sov. The window is a 2 edged sword. Whoever play out of that window is pretty much free to do whatever he wants while the people who's playtime is in-line with the windo currently gets to run around chasing no-commitment doctrine around. There is next to 0 benefit to committing for an attacker anyway because you gain next to no effectiveness in your attack. Every fleet I have been on to "save" timers, win or lose, the end comments from the player are the same depending on something completely different than if the objective was met. If the enemy had nothing but no-commitement ship doing the attack, everyone is bored out of their mind because nothing happen, It's warp-warp-warp-warp-warp and stragglers from both side getting killed usually because of their own misstakes. If a fleet show up, people are happy even if we lost it because the timer was fought over. With iteration to the game every ~6 weeks possible right now, trying for a single cycle to "force" a committed attack one way or another and then see how each side of the coin feel over it, we might actually get some steps done toward a better product. Roll back the change the next iteration if it's a disaster. I'm pretty sure people won't get completely butt mad if CCP shows they are trying to check what could work better for everyone. Hell maybe people don't want to commit more because they feel it's not worth more but CCP would probably benefit from learning that if it's the case.
This could honestly be the best way to help with tuning the sov mechanics . and could be a great way to make them a bit better for both defenders and attackers. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
22
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 00:25:45 -
[7] - Quote
So what youGÇÖre saying here is the people who own sov hate it and the groups that attack them love it. I agree that it could be a bit better balanced but shorting the windows is a direct nerf to attackers and a supper buff to defenders. Strange I have no grudge with you or the imperium and IGÇÖve been fighting your canes for the past few days so I think your biases for large fights is showing here because it hasnGÇÖt been over a grudge or moons.
If they bin the mechanic of sov and change it to something else, IGÇÖd be fine with it I am curious what would you like to see for a new sov mechanic and how would you like to see people engage in sov warfare?
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 16:39:23 -
[8] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Zappity wrote:I feel quite conflicted on this topic. On the one hand, I think that people who want to hold sov should be able to do so, and that it should be difficult for them to be kicked, or harassed, out of their space.
On the other hand, I think that enormous conglomerations such as the Imperium are fundamentally bad for the game and that sov mechanics which assist in these being broken up are healthy. At least for the moment.
I guess that leads to a further question - would the Imperium form under the current sov mechanics? Current sov mechanics favour even bigger groups as the less people you have attacking your space the better. At the end of the day, big groups won't stop forming all the time there's a benefit to cooperation which isn't going away. The only reason it's more pronounced in EVE than in other games is because it's a single shard so there's more players. What I don't understand is why some people think mechanics should be changed to stop other people playing in a way they don't like. And if they did do it, the result wouldn't be good because there's a huge number of people that like EVE being a sandbox and that would be ultimately breaking it. If CCP started forcefully choosing what playstyles were allowed they'd lose a heap of players. Hell, I only have one of my 50 character in the Imperium, so wouldn't; be very affected, but I'd drop all of my accounts and be gone in a heartbeat if CCP started enforcing maximum levels of cooperation.
CCP should never limit people working together. I don't fly with the imperium but ccp should not break it apart just becuse it exsist. That would be a death sentance for the game. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 16:51:33 -
[9] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:Rain6637 wrote:A glaring symptom of this new sov system seems to be the opposite of the HP grind system. By limiting attackers to 1, you've also reduced the response to near 1.
I can show up and jam the attacker, damp them, or shoot them. What I've found after several quick response fleets is the attackers are mostly Exodus small gangs ringing a doorbell. That type of gameplay does nothing for me, but I can appreciate their good fortune through game design.
Compare this to at least 50 duders required in the past, and entosis looks a lot like pure harassment.
Now. I think it's clear this thread was started out of frustration and there's no way to spin that. It does prove my point, however, that entosis is probably not the type of thing customers enjoy.
I think capture should look like a pool of 500 or 1000 entosis minutes, with a cap on simultaneous entosis modules based on ADM.
The logic behind it is to swap capitals needed in the past with subcapitals, each with an entosis link. This breaks up the capital requirement of HP grinds, and also solves the small gang harassment.
I am posting this as one of Asher's children who enjoyed 50-man Ishtar HP grinds in Querious and other parts of Sov space. Small gang fights are fun but not the only gameplay eve should offer the massive wars are what brings a lot of players to the game and a style of gameplay that should not suffer just to give small gang fights more of a chance. However, the mechanics are what they are and if a better system or a new system was introduced it wouldnGÇÖt take long for people to complain again anyway That thought was in the back of my mind, that no matter the system players will find it uncomfortable. I think Sov should be determined by the portion of moons that are towered in a system.
I think they did that system before domminon sov. I wasn;t around back then but it could be intresting
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 16:59:41 -
[10] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:CCP should never limit people working together. I don't fly with the imperium but ccp should not break it apart just becuse it exsist. That would be a death sentance for the game. That's what people are leaning toward though. They like these mechanics because it allows even single players to pose a realistic threat to big groups because they hate the idea of a big group. Nothing any big group does really has an impact on other players, before I rented then joined the Imperium big groups existed but had absolutely no bearing on my day to day gameplay, but some people just can't handle the fact that these groups exist and it's those people these mechanics cater to. Thankfully I think CCP knows it's bad play and entosis has a limited shelf life.
Entosising is deffernt then an artifical reduction of a groups ablity to work togther. entosising something dosn't mean sma cant work with the imperium anymore. If everyone can plau in sov then entosising is the best system we have right now. If not everyone can play with sov brinig back needing suppercaps. either way i'm fine with it. I'm currious though how many people do you think it should take to attack sov at a minimum? |
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 17:19:38 -
[11] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:Entosising is deffernt then an artifical reduction of a groups ablity to work togther. entosising something dosn't mean sma cant work with the imperium anymore. If everyone can plau in sov then entosising is the best system we have right now. If not everyone can play with sov brinig back needing suppercaps. either way i'm fine with it. I'm currious though how many people do you think it should take to attack sov at a minimum? Depends on the sov. If someone is legitimately never in their space and has no intention of defending it, I don't even have a problem with one guy doing it, it should just take some level of commitment to it. Defenders have to respond because if they fail they lose their sov, so attackers should also have to put something on the line they risk losing if they lose or abandon the attack. It wouldn't have to be a sunk cost, but they should have something that means running away has consequences. Like I said in an earlier post though, I think the way it's done is terrible. They should just scrap the additional mechanics and just base the owner of a system on all of the activity from the alliance in it, all mining, ratting, player kills, industry jobs, etc. That way to take someones space you have to actually live in it and people who have no interest in sov can't just ping and run away as they achieve nothing. True occupancy sov.
That system would be intresting actually and let other styles of gameplay hotdops and afk cloaking do a lot to fight a group while giving some counterplay options for the defenders. What would cause the fights though without timers I know form experiance i have to hit something to get a fight no one seems to just want to fight so got to force it. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 17:20:24 -
[12] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:CCP should never limit people working together. I don't fly with the imperium but ccp should not break it apart just becuse it exsist. That would be a death sentance for the game. That's what people are leaning toward though. They like these mechanics because it allows even single players to pose a realistic threat to big groups because they hate the idea of a big group. Nothing any big group does really has an impact on other players, before I rented then joined the Imperium big groups existed but had absolutely no bearing on my day to day gameplay, but some people just can't handle the fact that these groups exist and it's those people these mechanics cater to. Thankfully I think CCP knows it's bad play and entosis has a limited shelf life. Entosising is deffernt then an artifical reduction of a groups ablity to work togther. entosising something dosn't mean sma cant work with the imperium anymore. If everyone can plau in sov then entosising is the best system we have right now. If not everyone can play with sov brinig back needing suppercaps. either way i'm fine with it. I'm currious though how many people do you think it should take to attack sov at a minimum? I always though you should need a few cruiser or something like that personally since not being able to mount up a fleet like that essentially mean there is no way you could keep a system anyway so there is no point in letting you take one.
A few cruisers could be a good requiremnt. Still low sp enofgh that everyone can play and cost a bit more then frigates |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 17:25:16 -
[13] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:"It's funny when we do it to other people, but now that they're doing it to us it's becoming old hat and nobody should do it anymore." It's actually more like "It was dumb when we used it, which is why it was expected for CCP to remove it, not base a game mechanic on it". Kinda like when everyone went nuts with drone assist, if CCP came out with a mechanic specifically based around that, everyone would have been like
it's human nature you cant remove boredoom without making artifical figths. if you have something i want i can chose to fight you or not. if you have something to harras i can or chose to not. when deffending you have to deffend or chose to recapture it latter. it's just the nature of the sandbox moons are an example of this somethimes people fight over them sometimes they reinforce it anfd blueball. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 01:49:13 -
[14] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Quote:What the hell are you complaining about? The same mechanic now being an official part of the game. Boredom based mechanics are always bad for games as they are designed for entertainment. Yes, people use whatever is available to win, but the general idea is that games move away from mechanics which reduce player entertainment towards ones that improve it.
you might not enjoy it but so far in both cloud ring and fade i'm having fun with it. granted i don't own sov or live in sov but at the same time. three days of actual playing with timers three days of big fights. Multiple fleets to fight and have fun agaisnt. caps and suppercaps being thrown around. So far i think this is producing more action then has happened in a long time. the attacker if they don't already own sov can always choose to show up or not show up. occupancy based sov would have complaints against it as well. No system is going to be perfect but the defender is always at the mercy of the attacker does the attacker want to fight that day yes or no. does the attacker fell like ganking a freighter today yes or no. does an attack fell like droping caps today yes or no. if the attacker dosn't fell like it they dont have to as a defender you have to respond to what an attacker does. same goes for all parts of space. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 03:28:34 -
[15] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:you might not enjoy it but so far in both cloud ring and fade i'm having fun with it. But only because it allows you to complete your goals with ease. It's not the mechanic so much as the results. If they had a mechanic that allowed you to press a button and instantly gain 1b isk which you could repeat 20 times a second for eternity, it'd be fun in the way that you're gaining isk but boring in the way that you're just clicking a button repeatedly. In this case, it's a mining laser on a structure. Xeno Szenn wrote:No system is going to be perfect but the defender is always at the mercy of the attacker does the attacker want to fight that day yes or no. Exactly, but the attacker has to put nothing on the line, while the defender has absolutely everything to lose. How can you possibly not see the imbalance there?
it happens in all areas of space not seeing how null is any different. I have no goals i just fight my only motivation is fighting and i don't care who i'm fighting so for me it will never realy matter what sov mechanic it is. sov wanding is no different then station grinding. shooting a pos is no different then entosising. It's alll prety much the same. As for it being imbalanced i head no one saying it was imblanced in provi or elsewhere and the general blueballl mechanic is something that has been used forever so part of the game at this point.
with occupancy sov as full occupancy they should remove i hubs and tcu's that way whoever lives there owns it. Granted then anyone can dock anywhere but if you live in an area and are strong enough then nuets in local or station isn't an issue you just kill them. I honestly have no skin in the game for sov or for this supposed big war thats everyones talking about. The main issues i see with fozzie sov is both sides run more then they fight again it's a part of the game and something i do as well. timers arew the only reason people seem to fight so if you take them away then there would be no fights. Not once have i seen you guys engage unless a timer or cap was on the line. granted if the fights not to my liking i don't fight either so we need someway of forcing fights. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 18:18:35 -
[16] - Quote
I would like to point out that this thread seems to have sparked the most discussion about game mechanics and conflict generators. That i've seen and were actual able to have a discussion here over it that alone makes fozzie sov worth it before if you tried to discuss anything it got span as propaganda at least here we cana ctual talk about it.
The idea of having sov or having a job is kind of a mute point as well. Either you have the people to defend and can rotate through them or you dont. Anyone here do almra clock ops and the like it the smae principle. The idea of living out of a citadel over a station is great i just wish people loist everything if they died so there was a far greater risk associated with how powerful they are looking at being form the test numbers ive seen.
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 19:13:46 -
[17] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:The problem kinda is with the developers. SMA or not, whatever alliance you are in, sov involves watching one guy firing a mining laser at a structure. The only way to escape that is not to bother with sov, which tells me the sov mechanic is broken since game mechanics are supposed to be designed to be entertaining.
As for shark infested, it would be better if that were the case as they would be less likely to run away when people show up for fights. We have basically no chance of losing sov, since whether someone with isk was pissed off or not, to take sov the attacker have to see the timers through. They don't which is basically the whole problem. Attackers spend nothing half contesting the sov then running away. They don't actually want sov since they are just fighting for the e-honor of a guaranteed RMTer anyway, so they don't have to commit to the fight. Defenders on the other had have to commit every time.
At the end of the day though CCP know it's rubbish which is why they've already scrapped it for citadels, we likely just have to bear with bad mechanics until citadels are ready to replace them.
you keep saying an rmter and it keeps getting thrown around but no one offers prof that this is the case. The spin towards this even being a war at this point is also something that doesnGÇÖt aid the conversation on sov mechanics in general. From your point of view, IGÇÖm sure it feels like a siege or a war. From my point of view, itGÇÖs just content and ways to get the fights we want. We win some we lose some but itGÇÖs just a fight. Nothing any more meaningful then that to me. Your no different than fighting snuff in low sec or anyone else.
You keep saying the attacker should commit and IGÇÖll quote the Mattanis fireside chat last night GÇ£we owe you nothingGÇ¥. So the question has to be raised why does the attacker owe you anything? If both sides owe the other nothing then any use of the mechanics available to them is encouraged and smart to do. The great thing about eve and the worst thing about eve is the meta game. Ever mechanic has to balance both the in game numbers and the meta game. DonGÇÖt get me wrong any group that says they donGÇÖt play the meta game knowingly or unknowingly is delusional at best. I like your idea of citadels being the core of sov if when they were destroyed everything was lost like it would be in wormholes. That system there would be the crux of risk to reward for me because then the attacker has to defend or they lose everything but they get to set the times when they defend. Can that work in a system without etnosis, I hub, tcus, or even your name on the map they could remove all of that fairly easily. And it could be a better system again I wouldnGÇÖt mind fighting in tidi every fleet and having massive fights ever3ytime I log in. I think instead of having a spin zone or propaganda and IGÇÖm sure my words are being thought of as propaganda as well we need an honest discussion of game mechanics. No matter what mechanics they introduce its going to hurt someone and we have to adapt to it.
As for fighting back against entosis ships it takes a warmup cycle and then another cycle to entosis so lets say 10 minutes worst case an hour best cases. If you have dudes in those systems during the window they can hunt down and destroy the entsoiserGÇÖs. Kitting is always going to be a part of the game and something that is smart for small groups to do. Siegefleet is also something that fits into this category. Weponized boredom and fighting smart is something they canGÇÖt remove form the game. Unless they make wow style battlefields if fighting gains, you nothing why commit for either side.
I do think your occupancy sov idea has some merit and whoever can do x,y,and z while having the strength to keep people from docking there owns it. Make sov almost like npc null and you have to defend your stations and use your space. It gives everyone the ability to attack and everyone the ability to live in their space.
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
26
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 23:27:47 -
[18] - Quote
Lucas i treid to qute the qute but the fourms wouldnt let me so i split them off for each point. This conversation is a blast and i'm glad we can have a good discussion on mechanics and gameplay.
if it realy is an issue the people doing the rmt need to be banned. any form of rmt is bad for the game and should be stoped. people making acusations is also not proof but something the ccp should look into if alot of people are crying fowl. If they have looked into and theres no rmt then that should be the end of it.
[
I wont speak for others in absolute certainty but form my experiance the only way to get a fight is to force the other side to fight. Fair fights don;t exsist in this game and they realy shouldn't. People honoring there word is a matter of practicality but beyond that it's a sandbox let people do what they will.
in this case you guys can hunt down and hit entosis ships as well denying us the ablity to force a fight. to me thats our risk that we might not be able to force a fight. either side can blueball and deny the fight. thats my loss if i cant get the fight i want you won that round if i do then i won. to me thats realy it all boils down to not sure anyone else.
without having a palce to stage from no one would attack anyone becuse your risk to reward ratio is way out of perportion.
sov as far is know has never been entertaining. it makes history and news boradcast but never has it been a blast for the people fighting in it. the rewards are supposed to outballance the pain that comes with sov in my oppinion.
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
26
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 10:01:42 -
[19] - Quote
part of the problem may be the entosis module seemed to be glitched. http://imgur.com/a/sAHAy Goonswarm was kind enough to show us that if you start the cycle then just burn as long as your in range by the end of the cycle it still works. I never knew that was a thing before hopefuly ccp can clarify id this is intended or not. If it is it's definitely something that needs to be fixed. either way it wa sa blast guys and most of the fights seems to be a blast. I thionk it was 400 on 400 today at one point.
If this is an intended way to use the enotisi mechanic then it could cause some problems. Start cycle burn away close in to finish cycle and die. this may need to be ballanced and next month we should have citdels and the cap changes to play with who knows what that will do. What a time to be alive. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
26
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 10:41:49 -
[20] - Quote
Any mechanic can be used to create an advantage. to be honest if i cared about space and could feild the numbers the imperium could it would be amazing. your small gang and solo guys hunting down entosis boats. forming fleets to kill t3d's and bigger fleets. a constant state of content brought to me without having to lift a finger. I would be happy. you guys have it all right now for fleets small gang options. big fights, and even cap and supper caps getting droped. Would you guys even fight like this without someone entosising something or creating a situation where fighting was a desired outcome for you?
I am honestly curious i know nothing about the internal poltics and ideasl about well any group really but for someone who loves pvp this is amazing. even losing a few intiys tonight to try and snipe an entosis ship was a blast and a learning experience. |
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
26
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 10:48:50 -
[21] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:Any mechanic can be used to create an advantage. to be honest if i cared about space and could feild the numbers the imperium could it would be amazing. your small gang and solo guys hunting down entosis boats. forming fleets to kill t3d's and bigger fleets. a constant state of content brought to me without having to lift a finger. I would be happy. you guys have it all right now for fleets small gang options. big fights, and even cap and supper caps getting droped. Would you guys even fight like this without someone entosising something or creating a situation where fighting was a desired outcome for you?
I am honestly curious i know nothing about the internal poltics and ideasl about well any group really but for someone who loves pvp this is amazing. even losing a few intiys tonight to try and snipe an entosis ship was a blast and a learning experience. I agree with you, this is great. But no one will believe that coming from me.
I belive you this is amazingly fun for me and i don;t have close to the numbers you guys do to work with. there's kill to be had everywhere and a fight just around the next corner. the citdels coming up next and cap changes are going to make things even more intersting and entertaining, |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 21:43:42 -
[22] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:That's really the only solution. Entosis people for no reason to spread the grief around.
The biggest issue i see for you guys to do that is besides provi who do you hit. The Russians who are your allies acording to the Mattani? The groups who don't care about sov to begin with so won't care if they lose it. Right now you guts seem to be the only game in town so to speak Granted i don't know or care about most of the big sov groups or any of them for that matter. Defending sov can only be done if you care about that sov. thats why NPC null sec and low sec are so powerful I don't have to care about sov and can still get fights and force people to fight.
I think the sad situation right now is only imperium, Russians, and provie actual care about there sov everyone else is jsut a meh whatever about it. to be fair it's been that way since a little after phebe. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 22:14:54 -
[23] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Doesn't matter who it is, there doesn't need to be a narrative attached. Just anonymous entosis harassment.
PS did you just say we're the only show in town? Thanks fam
Who else owns anything besdies russians, provie and you guys? theres fights to be had everwhere but not these kind of fights right now. entosis everything if you want it's great for getting fights and if it's as broken as some of you guys say it is then it shouldn't be to hard to show how broken it is on a massive scale.
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 22:45:52 -
[24] - Quote
People have said that the entosis mechanic is broken. if it really is you guys can show everyone how broken it is on a massive sacle as we were talking about eariler. I personally like it but would probably like any mechanic. As for people owning sov. It seems to be the russian block, The imperium and provie for people who care about there sov and own it. Everyone else dosn't seem to care about it. I don;t know if that is a fact i just shoot stuff but thats my perception on it. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.22 23:05:34 -
[25] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:You're not one of those blue donut types, are you?
not really i don't care who i fight or where. I just truly love watching the carnage. Blue donut unblue donut it really makes no diffrance to me or my style of gameplay. I'm just in it for the destruction and chaos fighting brings. i wont shoot blues but if someone's not blue i'll shoot whoever. and if everyone is blue and against me it just means i have more targets. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.23 00:36:51 -
[26] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I gotcha. And I don't rat, all I want to do is fleet up. What do you do for ISK? The only positive ISK transaction I have in the game is SRP. So my stake in all of this is if line member income stops, my fun stops.
I think the gameplay we want is very similar.
market trading is great. it takes very little time and you can gain massive income after you learn what your doing and the best part is since you don't undock no risk unless you make a mistake. citdels might change that but for right now passive income sources are sp farming. reaction farming never done this, and market trading. there might be others but there the ones i know of. you'll never get rich but you can pvp.
it sounds like we both enjoy doing the same thing and to be honest i'm sure people in every group enjoy what we do. this is waht amkes eve amazing is the fact that everyone can set there own end game. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.23 07:02:23 -
[27] - Quote
Getting rid of the sov map would create a truly occupy sov situation. if you have the strength then you own it if not then rip. I don;t think it's the right answer though planting a flag on the map is important so some people in this game. mabey just have a tcu no sov upgrades and all that just you can put your flag here now protect it kind of deal. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 02:03:40 -
[28] - Quote
there have been a ton of good fights recently and a few things have highlighted the strength of fozie sov. Small groups working away from the main fleets. Fights going down almost nightly including large engagements. neither side commiting to fights they will obviously lose. All in all so far the system seems to work. i don;t know how it works on a large scale yet but on a small scale it seems to work quite well. I am really interested in seeing what citdels brinig to the mix. also Lucas Kell and Rain6637 it's been a ton of fun chatting and debating with you. I hope we can have more conversations about game mechanics and keep the discussion going. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
27
|
Posted - 2016.03.26 04:00:10 -
[29] - Quote
i'm not anyone in PL but i don't think it would to be honest. It's hard to be nomadic when you have to defend assets all over. If you could cyno over the entire map again potentially but witht he current way we move in eve it would take away our nomadic lifestyle. Like i said i'm no one and could be 100 percent wrong. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
28
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 06:45:17 -
[30] - Quote
The fight today and the last few fights have been amazing. If this is old mechanics permoting fights or new mechanics who cares. massive fights, tidi, and carnage on a massive scale. This is the **** that makes eve what it is to me. I really hope this content keeps going and that this war, skirmish, wehatever it is never ends or just goes form one fight to the next. |
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
28
|
Posted - 2016.03.29 14:37:32 -
[31] - Quote
Honestly beside the op i havn;t seen any tears in here just discussion. I hope we can keep having a dialog about the mecahnics becuse at the end of the day were all just people playing a game and sharing a hobby we enjoy. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
29
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 06:24:12 -
[32] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I can think of something worse than wishing you could have your old enemy back, which is wishing you could have EVE as it was two expansions ago.
I actual don;t want the old expansions back. every expansion brings something new and it's all about adaptation. At the end of the day an eve war is about making a player not have fun with the group there flying with anymore. I personally love tidi and entosis mechanics. I love the idea of a good old fashioned trench warfare in a space game. The cap and citdel changes have me excited to see what new meta's will spring up and what everyone will have to adapt to. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
29
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 10:03:30 -
[33] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Xeno I don't want to say anything disheartening but yeah.
As for anyone else with a hateboner problem that can never be fixed, *yawn.*
It's not dishertining for me If i'm in that means the bad guys are in and lets face it everyone ont he otherside is the bad guy even if you don;t dislike them. its the nature of war. And i smile as i relise that everything i'm in there in and vice versa. As for entosis mechanics shooting an I hub is the same as entosising to me so no real diffrance. Just a diffrant way of pervoking the fight., |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 12:31:13 -
[34] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Xeno I don't want to say anything disheartening but yeah.
As for anyone else with a hateboner problem that can never be fixed, *yawn.* It's not dishertining for me If i'm in that means the bad guys are in and lets face it everyone ont he otherside is the bad guy even if you don;t dislike them. its the nature of war. And i smile as i relise that everything i'm in there in and vice versa. As for entosis mechanics shooting an I hub is the same as entosising to me so no real diffrance. Just a diffrant way of pervoking the fight., What I had on my mind was the messy / bloody changes coming to capital gameplay. I've been told that within GSF, if you lose a capital on official business, it gets replaced. As for you guys, from what I can tell the conensus regarding capital losses is "we don't take losses."
Meh I've never needed srp and don;t see that changing. And as for not taking losses it was before my time but prety sure we lost a quite a few in b-r and anytime you field a ship theres a chance of lossing it either way im hopping we see trillions of isk destoryed and carange on a massive scale over the next few years. Eve get's boring without fights and people not willing to fights. Probably why i spent a vast majority of my time in low sec. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.03.30 21:57:09 -
[35] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I think it could work. It just needs a more extensive UI to help fleet commanders know what's going on.
An updated ui for fc's would be amazing |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.03.31 16:25:37 -
[36] - Quote
Hawk Aulmais wrote:So #ccp we ran the numbers and in the past 14 days SMA has had to deal with ~200 hacking attempts. How many of these resulted in timers idk. Just goes to show its easier to attack than to defend. Can't save every system just due to the geography of some areas when 20 hackers are hitting at once.
Geography plays a part in any war. if you cant saave them all then you can;'t save them all. thats only around 15 hacking atempts per day. and put that into a small window of time one to two fleets could cover that. with an allaince your size you should have a fair number of fc's so each fc take a day or half a day to run anti entosis fleets and you can cover a large area of that. so lets say 4 fc to run good covrage over the tz's times 7 days thats only 28 people stepping up to run a fleet a week. out of 3,000 people thats not unreisnable to have.
as for 20 hackers attacking at once that's also a strategy that has been used with sbu's and old sov mechanics as well. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 02:55:19 -
[37] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:The systems are empty and you still don't want to entosis it. Why not, is it because Entosis sucks?
No value in entosising to take systems for now. Why not make you allies still pay the sov bills and be forced to drop it themselves or let someone else take it rather then us taking it for them. To be fair PL, waffles, and everyone else have been entosising a lot of I hubs and other assets just because we havenGÇÖt taken the systems doesnGÇÖt mean we havenGÇÖt been entosising. The ability to destroy is a greater ability in this conflict so far then the ability to create. So far we have lit Fade, pure blind, Tribute, and Tenal on fire. I hubs, tcuGÇÖs, CSAA that are the old mechanic. All have been destroyed. M-O was entosis warfare. All of the destruction in fade and pure blind has been over entosising. So I think we have been entosising a lot. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 10:52:34 -
[38] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:Rain6637 wrote:The systems are empty and you still don't want to entosis it. Why not, is it because Entosis sucks? No value in entosising to take systems for now. Why not make you allies still pay the sov bills and be forced to drop it themselves or let someone else take it rather then us taking it for them. To be fair PL, waffles, and everyone else have been entosising a lot of I hubs and other assets just because we havenGÇÖt taken the systems doesnGÇÖt mean we havenGÇÖt been entosising. The ability to destroy is a greater ability in this conflict so far then the ability to create. So far we have lit Fade, pure blind, Tribute, and Tenal on fire. I hubs, tcuGÇÖs, CSAA that are the old mechanic. All have been destroyed. M-O was entosis warfare. All of the destruction in fade and pure blind has been over entosising. So I think we have been entosising a lot. You have been. As for why pay the sov bills it's to get people to entosis it all. Weaponized bullshit remember
Meh i guss i don;t meta that well but kicking people out seems more important in war or traping them in then actual taking sov form the,. And the announcement of using sword fleet as much as possible is intersting choice. Overall this war so far has been a blast a ton of content and a good old fashioned fight I hope you guys are having fun with parts of it to. Even if the sov mechanics arn't to your liking.
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:16:49 -
[39] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Wait, are you upset?
Not at all I'm having a blast win or lose this has made eve so much fun right now. and as for sword fleet t3d's own zone them and if you use triage carriers to entosis they can;t even hurt them. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:23:36 -
[40] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I guess that's that
it's all about conterplays theres option to fight that but interceptors wont. escelation seems to start with firgates and move up now instead of starting with caps and move into supper caps |
|
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:50:19 -
[41] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I mean if that's really how you understand it I'd rather it stay that way.
If i'm missing a mechanic here please let me know. Everything in life and eve is a lareaning experaince so if i missed something I would lvoe to know about it. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:58:19 -
[42] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:So correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't TEST abandon all their **** from the start?
I think they did if they wanted it or not who knows. I have never had a sov home so I don't understand attachment to it but for some players they are attached to there sov some arn't if test cares about i have no idea same if you guys care about yours.. To me it's all about counter plays and watching explosions. Ships, pos, i hubs, and tcus are all the same to me. I can't wait to see the carange around the new citdels don't care if they work or not someone will build some. Overall I play eve to watch the explosions not to create but rather destroy so i may be the exception rather then the normal eve player. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.02 01:55:27 -
[43] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:now jump up and down and celebrate proper.
Overall I'm hoping for both sides this drags on for 5 to 6 years think of all of the fun content and changes it would brinig to the game. this has been a great discussion on mechanics though and I hope to see everyone on grid and space. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.03 23:46:46 -
[44] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Aiwha wrote:Its plenty risky. Its also risky to own space. HAHAHAHA. So it's plenty risky to stick an entosis link on a disposable ship and fire it at a structure? Stop being terrible. Seriously guy, if you can't see the clear difference in what people have to put on the line between attackers and defenders it's because you don't want to. Anyone even remotely objective can see where the problem lies, and the funny part is that one day you'll probably try to hold sov and you'll be right back here with the exact same problems. What's becoming clear to most people now is that it's pretty much the best idea to live in lowsec or npc nullsec bordering sov space and use sov casually rather than actually owning it and living directly in it. The whole concept of ownership and belonging has been chucked. This is why the current war has no real endgame. Even if we lose the majority of our space there's nothing stopping us doing exactly what MBC are doing then nobody is owning it, and what we end up with is two massive coalitions fighting each other perpetually and we've back to blob vs blob.
Nothing wrong with a good long blop vs blop fight with tons of tidi and nothing wrong with small skirmish over to large fights over sov. I have nothing against the imperium but this war is fun and good for the game. WarGÇÖs draw people into eve and brings people back to fight them. I honestly hope we have a war thatGÇÖs last for years like the Mattani says it well be because that will make the game interesting and fun to play.
The sov mechanic system can only really be used ageist you if you care about sov. A lot of people seem to care about sov while others donGÇÖt if people dint care about sov and the defenders do it will always be in the attackerGÇÖs favor. The question will always come down to what is the greater power. The power to create and build or the power to destroy. What do people want to do in this game and how do they want to play.
When this started the question and discussion was about sov harassment and the mechanics that are applied to that. This war has changed and evolved now sov mechanics can be used to cause player burnout as the Mattani said on his fireside chat is a desirable outcome. To quote him psyop or psychological warfare is something that the Imperium specialize in. We can look at all these mechanics and see if fozzie sov works or doesnGÇÖt work after the fightingGÇÖs over. Fozzie sov seemed to desire to make a city state type of null sec where lots of groups owned and held sov. The old system meant only a few powerful groups could hold sov. What will happen when everything settles who knows. Will it go back to the way it was before with the Imperium owning half of sov null. Will Anyone hold sov, or will lots of groups hold sov? I donGÇÖt have an answer to that.
The current mechanics can be used just as much against the attacker by vulnerability windows as it does in the attackerGÇÖs favor. AS you pointed out it takes a lot of effort to constantly monitor your sov and protect it from an attacker. So far IGÇÖve noticed that your staging systems were untouched until this became a much bigger fight then it was when it was waffles, horde, and Tishu fighting you. Your main staging system was safe and easily held.
The sov mechanics no matter how you change them will always boil down to a war of attrition. Space could be taken and lost but as long as people keep fighting and their war chest are fully stoked and able to keep the fight going itGÇÖs going to boil down to player numbers and motivation. The question is how motivated are you to defend and how motivated are we to attack. ItGÇÖs all going to boil down to will power and motivation. Honestly for us that are just playing the game it should be fun for both sides. For the people who build and maintain alliances and corps it could be a lot more stressful.
The citadels and capital changes could make this conflict and entosis game mechanics even more interesting. How will all that effect sov mechanics and the creation or destruction of fortressGÇÖs I donGÇÖt know but I look forward to seeing it. Will everyone live in low sec? That is a possibility. Is sov doomed who knows it could be. I don;t think its the ned of sov ownership though but only time well tell. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.04 00:29:53 -
[45] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Would you mind if I explained what we're doing to you in plain english
I'm just having fun playing a game. I don;t do mind trick or the like i just enjoy eve and all the aspects of it minus pve. Win or lose for either side this war is going to be fun and bring people both into the game and back to the game even if for a short time. I have no grudge against any of you but this war is a lot of fun. I think the sov mechanic discussion has now evolved into a sov war discussion. This war might not save eve but it sure is making things interesting for now and I don;lt think eve is on it's death bed yet. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.04 00:56:34 -
[46] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Xeno this is a miniature manifesto of what has been said publicly by Mittens. This is also my interpretation so you know, evaluate it on your own for accuracy and truth.
It is very clear that you value the goodfight gameplay. As a coalition we have made up our minds to deny you those fights. This aligns with our secondary goal of denying CCP their war.
We want to place nothing but entosis nodes in front of you, and also leave CCP struggling for proof that a war is happening. The only unprecedented metrics we want them to see is the amount of stront used in entosis links, and the number of entosis minutes forced upon players.
As far as I'm concerned this is the Un-War.
Oh I know your coalition will deny the good fights gameplay to work towards an objective and I find the Mattanis speeches and writings on eve and eve warfare interesting. The Good fight gameplay is a blast but war is so much more fun. This is the **** I read about a saw when I first came to eve at the end of the fountain war 2013ish and joined eve uni long before I bought Xeno to be my main. Or joined waffles where I found myself truly experiencing eve pvp in all it glory.
The thing that makes eve amazing is the actual numbers of ways to fight unlike wow a game I left for eve. Breaking an enemyGÇÖs economy, their ability to field fleets, there very desire to fight. No other game I have every played has the felling that eve has. In this game you can lose everything and thatGÇÖs incredible. I might still just be too new to fully understand how these wars go. I missed the fountain war, The Halloween war, and all the other wars.
This is the war IGÇÖve wanted to be a part of ever since I joined eve and read about Laz, Mr. Vee, Shadoo, Shamis, Elise, Grath and even the Mattani himself. The fall of BOB, the wars between the great eve powers. I missed all of that and now I finally get to be a part of a true eve war. Are parts of it going to suck sure are parts of it going to be amazing sure. IS it every going to be easy I hope not it would be sad if either side fell without a fight. BLueballs and denying fights are part of the game and a good strategy but for me itGÇÖs just fun to be a part of this war and watch how people react to it. Reddit says one thing, something awful says another, both sides have propaganda and try to motivate people to fight and win at any cost. This is why I joined eve in the first place because no other game gives you something like this.
There is a lot I still donGÇÖt know about eve no clue why the Mattani is called Mittens, what started the great war and lead to the fight with bob. OLD Northern collation or southern collation how they fell or any of that. This could be an Un-war but for me itGÇÖs my first war so IGÇÖm not jaded by history yet. If I was around for those old fights and wars I might not have the views I do but since I wasnGÇÖt all I can go on is my experience and what IGÇÖve read and experienced. |
Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.04 07:30:15 -
[47] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:The sov mechanic system can only really be used ageist you if you care about sov. A lot of people seem to care about sov while others donGÇÖt if people dint care about sov and the defenders do it will always be in the attackerGÇÖs favor. And you don't see the problem with this? The sov system is supposed to be about people who want sov deciding who gets it. Since it best used by simply not wanting sov there's no point in sov existing. IF there's no point it it exsisting then let it die. And I disagree with you there sov is supposed to be about people creating a castle and defending it. I don;lt want to have it or need to have it to attack your castle.. SHould I have to fight and strugle for it sure but to lay sige to it I dont need to want it just have the desire to attack it. Xeno Szenn wrote:The question will always come down to what is the greater power. The power to create and build or the power to destroy. What do people want to do in this game and how do they want to play. Except it clearly doesn't, since like you've just said the attacker has the advantage by not caring about sov, thus they don't actually need to be more powerful. Strange if i don;t need to be more stronger or more orginized why didn't you leave sov until everyone joined the fight. you guys could have left when it was just Tshu, horde, and waffles but since we couldn't fight all of you at once you held on till a greater force was assembled. Xeno Szenn wrote:Fozzie sov seemed to desire to make a city state type of null sec where lots of groups owned and held sov. The old system meant only a few powerful groups could hold sov. What will happen when everything settles who knows. Will it go back to the way it was before with the Imperium owning half of sov null. Will Anyone hold sov, or will lots of groups hold sov? I donGÇÖt have an answer to that. But that's not going to happen, what it's going to create is a place where it's irrelevant who holds sov since anyone can just roll in trigger all your timers, waste your time and inevitably destroy your space. It's a sov system that gives and overwhelming advantage to non-sov holders, which is probably the dumbest way for the mechanic to be. The only reason you like that is that you are the non-sov holder lol. As usual, players benefiting from the broken mechanic think it's fine.
You claim that the only reason I like this is because IGÇÖm not a sov holder. That fact is untrue I like the system because you need to occupy all your space and maintain high indexes or the small guy can take a bit of it for however long they can hold onto it. Can a few things be tweaked sure but if you want Rome then you should have to create the armies, the infrastructure, and population of Rome. I think the Russians are over extended as well but that is beside the point. As for wasting your time it's your home if I come to burn it down shouldn't you have to fight me off. If I attack with a single frigate a single frigate can kill me. If people are constantly using the space. If I attack in mass, then a group needs to defend it. IF other people start complaining about that then I fell they are mistaken as well. My opinions are from my knowledge of eve and what I have read about and experienced. I will link my comments to others that complain about sov as well because honestly I think if you live there then defending it should be easy. Horde can live ratting in just a few systems and still make decent isk.
As for mechanics that I do think are broken and are being changed is spider tanking slow cats, and supper caps in their current form. Members of my alliance probably will disagree with me but the idea of complete safety is something I donGÇÖt think should exist in eve and I'm happy there chaining it. Wormhole escalations and the amount of isk you can make in almost complete safety that should also be examined and changed because the isk can be amazing when I was doing it. T3 cruisers and t3 destroyers could potentially need to be rebalanced the Svipul in particular is one ship that seems overpowered in most situations. But of course IGÇÖm biased so take it with a grain of salt.
I understand your position and that you disagree with what I'm saying and we donGÇÖt have to agree to discuss an issue. I honestly want a discussion on the subject. However, when it all comes down to your biased because your attacking of course you like it your attacking it limits the conversation. We are on opposite sides of this conflict but we are both people who play this game as a hobby for fun. If I were to say I would like to only entosis a structure once to flip, it or destroy it that would be c0mpletly unbalanced and biased towards the attacker. If I wanted to say only entosis a tcu to flip the system and the I hub and station flipped with it that would be biased. An honest discussion about the amount of space needed to live, Vulnerability windows, Should the attackers need to commit more and how can that be made better we have discussed. I disagree with some of your points and agree with a few suggestions you made to make sov better.
To put it another perspective I got out played today and lost a cerb fleet to caracals because 1 I made mistakes and 2 I got outplayed. Should I go and ask for cerbs to be buffed because I lost that fleet or should I say I made mistakes and need to improve. I think I need to improve and not make those mistakes. I have enjoyed the discussion you Myself and Rain6637 have been having but lol youGÇÖre the attacker or lol your goons does limit the conversation a bit. As i'm sure my forum formatting does as well. |
|
|
|